Tuesday, August 19, 2008

Who Is Satan?! - Subjectivism And Satanism

Satanism, and the figure of Satan represent many things. The common thing between all that Satan represents is the human nature. Interpretations might differ, but there are few things that most Satanists would agree on.

The most direct answer you can get is: "Satan is You, Yourself!"... And that's true... That's who Satan really is!!! While this is an accurate and precise answer, this answer is to most people confusing at best!! Further yet, the statement "Satan is You" is a conclusion - the final answer, you might call it. So instead of this short answer, I will explain how this statement has been reached.

Philosophically speaking, Satanism is the bridge between Nihilism (Non-existence) and Rationalism (Existence of Self). Nihilism is an Objective philosophy, while Rationalism is a Subjective philosophy... Satanism is simply a way to be both subjective and objective at the same time. Okay, this is still confusing, I'll try to elaborate.

Can you objectively say that you exist?! Can you prove that you exist?! Can you logically justify your needs?! The answer to the above three questions is NO!! The concept of "Self" cannot be formulated by objective means. Can you make us a mathematical formula that tell us who you are?! What are we anyways?!

The above reasoning would put anyone in the corner!! So what if someone tells you: "Okay, I am gonna shoot you, rape your mother, and take all your money... You don't exist! Actually, neither any of us exists, so why would you care anyways!!" - This sure would put any philosopher who advocates pure objectivity in a tight corner!!

Obviously, its irrational to give up your life (and personal interest in general) just for a small game of words, isn't it?!

The solution is simple. We need to first understand that through the above reasoning, defending yourself and not defending yourself are BOTH objectively irrelevant. Objectively speaking, it doesn't matter if you die - And it doesn't matter if you live, either! So whatever you do is a valid outcome. For this reason, subjectivity is valid. Since both answers are valid through objectivity, we create a new system that we judge our decisions by. This system simply admits that you exist, and that you have needs, and satisfying those needs is a favorable outcome. [This solution is similar to the solution of justifying knowledge within skepticism]

Through admitting subjectivity, you admit your own existence, and is able to achieve Rationalism. And satanism is basically, being yourself through the understanding of the path between Nihilism and Rationalism. Since Satanism is admitting your own existence, then Satan is You!! Because without Satanism the word "I" would not have meaning.

Apart from the philosophical aspects, one the most important features of humans is responsibility. Once a person admits responsibility, he would automatically understand the other things Satan represents.

Knowledge for example is a responsibility. Humans are responsible to create a good life for themselves. Knowledge is the best tool to create a good life. Consider all the benefits of knowledge... With knowledge we conquer all life's problems, we create tools to help us solve problems.

Humans can be both good and evil, and so is Satan. But Satanists (in general) prefer the naked truth... They don't like disguises. They don't like to make up stories to answer questions they don't know the answers for. They don't want to behave in a manner dictated on them by hypocritical systems, including -among others- religious institutes that advocates human-made rules as God-sent rules.

13 comments:

a different perspective said...

We can logically proof that we exist. This is where the "I think therefore I am" comes from. If I am wondering whether I exist or not, something is wondering i.e. "thinking". That something is me.
Pretty much the only think that a person can proof is their own existence. If you're a figment of your imagination, you still exist, you are the thing that is imagining.

One question about Satanism:

-Satan the term originates from the Abrahamic faiths, being traditionally applied to an angel in Judeo-Christian belief, and to jinn in Islamic belief. (With some who relate this term with a rebellious angel or devil). So, by saying you're a Satanist, does that imply that you believe in one or all of these faiths?

Devil's Mind said...

Not really, Satanism and the concept of Satan existed before Abrahamic religions. Those religions took the image of Satan (which originally was considered a very positive image), then those religions changed it to a negative image. [Obviously, Abrahamic religions are there to make people hate their human nature] (I have explained this in an earlier post)

So, no, many Satanists (although not all) are atheists.

And as for the "I think therefore I am", can you prove that you think?! (also discussed earlier)

a different perspective said...

In your "I Think Therefore I Exist, Or Do I?" blog you're saying to think is to be creative, to be free and we're not.....but this is not what is meant by "i think therefore i am".

what is meant by "i think", is having thoughts, or being conscious.

Later in your blog, you're arguing whether our consciousness is better than artificial intelligence. Again, it doesn't matter. What matters is that our consciousness is there. I might be nothing except that consiousness. But that's fine, the consiousness exists. I am that consiousness therefore I exist.

Also you say:
"I wouldn't be surprised to learn that our whole universe is nothing but an illusion of existence rather than an actual existence."

I agree with you on that, the whole universe might be nothing but an illusion. But, if you imagined all this world around you, you or your mind or your consciousness (or whatever you want to call it) must exist to do all this imagination.

Bottom line. I'm not sure that the world exist. I'm not sure that you exist or we (humans) exist. The only thing that I'm sure of is that my consciousness exist, therefore I exist. The existence is not necessarily in physical terms.

Also, thanks for the info on Satanism. I always thought that Satanists are spiritual in their beliefs and do worship Satan - the enemy of christian god.

PS. Wikipedia seems to have different definitions of Satan and Satanism than you do.

Devil's Mind said...

Wikipedia's content (in its current form) is to say the least not comprehensive regarding Satanism.

Also, don't consider this post as a definition, but rather explaining what Satanists mean when they say, Satan is you. Or when they say that Satan is the human psyche. Or many of other things that fall in the same proximity.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this article, there are many divisions, many interpretations, but the thing that all satanists agree on is that Satan represents the human nature.

Also, if you come to think of it. The Abrahamic religions existed to oppose Satanism, rather than the other way around. The human nature is there, and those religions are trying to repress our nature.

To simplify the discussion regarding existence, yes we are not talking strictly about physical existence.

You say: "Later in your blog, you're arguing whether our consciousness is better than artificial intelligence. Again, it doesn't matter." - Cool. So you are considering the less strict definition of thinking [where creativity and freedom are not requirements].

"The only thing that I'm sure of is that my consciousness exist, therefore I exist." - To elaborate here. So basically, you get certain ideas, certain things you want to do, or say... You cannot justify them, or explain why they are there... But you do know that those "thoughts" are going inside your head -hence, they are real-, and you decide to follow what they imply. Is this true?!

Finally, if you have specific questions, I might be able to give more specific answers.

a different perspective said...

In the paragraph before the last you say "hence, they are real".

So, you agree that these "thoughts" are real. That's it...I can be nothing but these thoughts. Whether I follow what they imply or not is irrelevant.

a) The thoughts are real
b) I can be nothing but those thoughts
c) I am real

a and b => c

So if you agree with me that those thoughts are real. Then, the premise (a) is valid.

You accept that by existence we are not strictly talking about physical existence by saying: "To simplify the discussion regarding existence, yes we are not talking strictly about physical existence." So, being nothing but thoughts is enough. Then, the premise (b) is valid.

a and b imply c. So, I am real.

a different perspective said...

Just to clarify. The proof is subjective and not objective, because each person can only prove it to themselves.
i.e. I can only prove that I exist to myself. And you can only prove that you exist to yourself. Because, I'm not aware of your consciousness and you're not aware of mine.

Tala said...

thx Zaid, this entry and the reffered one is well written, it got me thinking for couple of days now.

so you say that our dream world relating to the real world could be equally contributing as much as our common world to the real world, the common world is part of the real world [no one knows if its a perfect match or not but our perception is lacking since we can't explain why we have a dream world] and that subjectively speaking, we exist in thoughts and consciousness, and admitting that means that whatever we do is up to us and is a valid output since we are [ as in BEING Physically in the now ] in the matrix which is momentary compared to universe/ real world age or process duration which makes us so mortals. we have a beginning and an end but what happens in between is up to us.

objectively we don't know why we are here, this really got me thinking, because my question is, whats the use of physics if knowledge can do? why do thoughts need physics in the master design? if my knowledge or the knowledge of the system can "BE" or is used after i pass, how does the physics contribute to the shape of thoughts? considering how we all are subjectively disconnected in consciousness, how is it connected there, in the real model??

i concluded that we are the processing power of whatever is happening. and that we are an energy that can think but is there to do since we can dream but we can be awake as well, which could answer the purpose of creation. how can knowledge do without an instrument? but it means that after we lose the body we should remain there as consciousness, as knowledge.

I was always amazed by the question of " Why does the eye see a thing more clearly in dreams than the imagination when awake" ??

and then i think of a person locked in a room without any interaction with the surrounding, he would go crazy, because we live on nurturing our senses and planning our empty time with doing things. so there is a need to keep feeding the senses. again.. why? why do we need a body, why do we have an urge to work, produce and reproduce? am questioning this based on making knowledge and consciousness as an essence to being.

The Observer said...

Insteresting. You always maange to get me more aware of my own satanism :P

I find the idea of the Abraham religions coming to counter satanism interesting.

Zait o Za3tar said...

Interesting post and interesting comments too.

Zait o Za3tar said...

Interesting post and interesting comments too.

Devil's Mind said...

Excuse me for the brief disconnection from the discussion in progress. I have been in a vacation at Syria for the past five days. I am not going to speak much of it, because it was not the greatest vacation I had. Not sure if it was tough luck, or that Syria sucks... But it was probably because of the hot weather that makes it impossible to enjoy an outing. Anyways, I am back now. Home sweet home!

Back to the main topic at hand.

A Different Perspective: Good argument. Without getting into the semantics of what is "real", but the simple fact that for you what you wish for seems real, then thats "real enough"... Which is compatible with what I am saying. If you feel that something is good for you, it is justifiable that you do it, even if that thing is nothing in the grand theme of things.

Tala: I agree with most of what you are saying. "we have a beginning and an end but what happens in between is up to us." Thats particularly agreed on because thats an implication of taking responsibility for your self and life.

Unfortunately, I don't understand your question here: "whats the use of physics if knowledge can do?" - Maybe you can rephrase what you are trying to say.

"how does the physics contribute to the shape of thoughts?" - From a purely theoretical point of view, we can say that the relationship between thoughts and the physics of life is two way. Thats to say, our thoughts are influenced by how things work in our physics.

But when you start considering matrix-like metaphysics, we can also start to see how our thoughts can influence the physics of the world we live in.

"because we live on nurturing our senses and planning our empty time with doing things." - Thats something to think about. Yes, as humans we depend on our senses, and that is understandable. Simply said, without senses we would be totally disconnected from the world.

Observer: I am very happy that my articles touch some of the audience. After all, isn't this why I write in the first place :)

Zait o Za3tar: Thank you. I am very glad that I receive interesting comments, and I have to thank all the contributors, because without readership and commenters, this place would be just broadcasting ideas, which is not the goal. The goal is the interaction of thoughts.

Tala said...

Welcome Back Zaid,

whats the use of physics if knowledge can do?

I meant by this that if we are beings that are subjectively disconnected since we can't see others' thoughts and consciousness or prove it to be real, and we are in some system and all we do is constantly feed in information from the bigger something, learning and identifying with it, IF our output is thoughts and knowledge and physical system manipulation, then what are we doing with matter? why do we need matter to run thoughts if thoughts are the real deal like the grand design doesn't know what we are exploring? and whats the use of matter if the knowledge of the system [the bigger thing] can accomplish something alone in the first place? what is it using us for? which makes me ask: is the system complete?

my answer to all this is mobility, [I guess]
the earth turns around itself everyday, aren't we constantly feeding because we are constantly moving, and there is this rush to grow and keep life going on with bigger and bigger growth levels, are we moving the overall disconnected bits of consciousness to a place in some dimension? so we are alive to make a bigger thing alive which is the main wire called consciousness.

its like, life on earth is like a dvd and its reading its track in light years, it doesn't really go over the exact track twice.


you said, without senses we would be totally disconnected from the world, I say the common world .. but I don't know how true, like do I use my senses when REM dreaming or if Im brain dead where would I be?

those were just ideas inspired by the post.

Devil's Mind said...

"IF our output is thoughts and knowledge and physical system manipulation, then what are we doing with matter?" - First things first. If we are willing to admit that our senses are not a reliable source for information about our surroundings, maybe matter is after all nothing like we believe it is.

"why do we need matter to run thoughts if thoughts are the real deal like the grand design doesn't know what we are exploring?" - Our thoughts are important from our point of view. Not necessarily from an objective POV.

"you said, without senses we would be totally disconnected from the world, I say the common world .." - True, that is a more precise statement, since in our definition the "common world" is the world that our senses report to us.

"do I use my senses when REM dreaming" - For those who don't know, REM stands for rapid eye movement. REM dreaming is a phase of sleep during which dreams occur and the eyes move within the socket.

Probably, dreaming can be considered a set of active senses. The state of REM shows that the dreaming state can show symptoms in the common world. And since dreams can be observed (through their symptoms) this shows that dreams can be dealt with using scientific means.